tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post6478397188205813906..comments2024-02-29T02:06:59.726-09:00Comments on Fumbling Towards Endurance: Western States It IsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-50983370306726252452011-02-11T17:46:30.952-09:002011-02-11T17:46:30.952-09:00Sorry about the mix-up above this post...
-------...Sorry about the mix-up above this post...<br /><br />------------------------------------<br />To David and all the haters,<br /><br />I don't think y'all "know" Geoff well enough to pass judgment.<br /><br />I ran Bear a few years ago when he tore it up, and I got tore up. I was pretty crushed DNF'ing at mile 75, and I emailed him asking some questions and asked for advice.<br /><br />He was really encouraging and helpful- we emailed back and forth a few times, and he gave me some good pointers. He's a good dude.<br /><br />Give the man a break... if he wants to run/compete against the best, why do you care? Don't be such a wuss because you're a middle/back of the pack-er. <br /><br />I'm a mid to back of the pack runner, and IF the "elites" ever looked down on me... I honestly couldn't care less. I don't do it for them, I do it for me. Get over it!<br /><br />Spend more time training and less time whining. Life's too short for this petty BS!<br /><br />PS: I can't speak on behalf of "Speedgoat", but David... I did see him "on the other side of the table" at Squaw Peak. He actually gave some dude a swig of his beer... pretty "down to earth" if you ask me.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05591493293093971291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-73657605553401850132011-02-11T17:35:44.079-09:002011-02-11T17:35:44.079-09:00This comment has been removed by the author.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05591493293093971291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-78270511129068676052011-02-11T15:54:57.835-09:002011-02-11T15:54:57.835-09:00USATF is a private corporation.USATF is a private corporation.Krishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08649849068889638443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-39043947205175557322011-02-11T15:53:34.467-09:002011-02-11T15:53:34.467-09:00Karl,
That is my point, exactly.Karl,<br />That is my point, exactly.Krishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08649849068889638443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-51358111922663998042011-02-11T15:20:12.041-09:002011-02-11T15:20:12.041-09:00Fell off the chair again. I had to comment only b...Fell off the chair again. I had to comment only because a few will find it entertaining. <br /><br />I prefer to NOT grow up. I am a kid, and will always be a kid. I don't need a job that you think I should have, I have the best job in the world. I am a runner. And Yes, I am a white boy, thanks for the heads up on that.<br /><br />I guess I'm done here, you should be too. Goodnight! BaaaaahhhhhhSpeedgoat Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06938342832238975059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-44931610326901194822011-02-11T14:53:28.556-09:002011-02-11T14:53:28.556-09:00I know for a fact that if you guys could muster up...I know for a fact that if you guys could muster up running sub 2:10 road marathons you wouldn't be ultrarunning. Simple.Krishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08649849068889638443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-61341831388780295872011-02-11T14:52:04.511-09:002011-02-11T14:52:04.511-09:00Boys, you are so silly. Just run! Ultrarunning is ...Boys, you are so silly. Just run! Ultrarunning is a sport a game. You are nothiing a bunch of pany pussy white boys. What are you doing for the community let alone our nation? Why do you need to be validated? Geoff, you are very self-centered. Karl, you need to grow up, how old are you? 40 something? Go get a real job and contribute to society.Krishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08649849068889638443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-87217997846106977052011-02-11T13:09:49.383-09:002011-02-11T13:09:49.383-09:00It's a really good thing there's such a gr...It's a really good thing there's such a great discussion here! Sometimes unavoidably rough and controversial, yet open, free and very informative! Unlike, for example A.K.'s blog where all you can find is praising the Apollo of the mountains! Thanks Geoff!Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16802330467514895602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-83499700001517159942011-02-11T11:26:20.185-09:002011-02-11T11:26:20.185-09:00The best thing about this post is the debate that ...The best thing about this post is the debate that it created. It's great that Geoff, Karl, etc. chose to respond to others comments (this often doesn't happen). I love getting the perspective of both sides and the replies provide greater insight. Good way to spend a lunch hour.Brian Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17574466672803944053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-76356205277768268832011-02-11T10:59:45.639-09:002011-02-11T10:59:45.639-09:00The internet is TOTALLY where it's at for cove...The internet is TOTALLY where it's at for covering this sport... and David, I've never volunteered or crewed at WS, RR or HR, but constantly check on line to see what is happening when a big race is going on, and I know plenty of other ultrarunners who do the same... and I buy a lot of shoes :)<br /><br />If you think about it, US marathoners face a lot of the same issues, actually. Distance running, in general, is not a great sport for television. Also, regarding championships in the US... when it isn't an Olympic year, most Americans don't give a hoot about it. Did you know that the US marathon championship race is frequently held in Minnesota on non-Olympic qualifier years? The elites don't typically show up cuz the money is at Chicago, NY and Boston (or Europe). (Seems analogous to WS in some ways to me, although of course any elite marathoner that wants to go to Chicago, NY or Boston can certainly get in to the race, even if it is "full". They even get paid to do so in many cases because those races care very much about competition at the front.) The very best marathoners often don't go to the USATF championship race for some of the same reasons top ultrarunners don't go to USATF trail championship races. The USATF isn't doing anything to draw them there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-82270222204020647422011-02-11T09:39:44.185-09:002011-02-11T09:39:44.185-09:00david,
you seem to be stuck on this idea that I th...david,<br />you seem to be stuck on this idea that I think some existing race should change to accomodate a field of elite runners. I think you're making a lot of assumptions here. I don't feel this way at all. I think (just as you seem to) that this needs to come from a new event with a new vision. i was using hardrock as an example to illustrate the demand for this kind of event, not saying that i thought hardrock needed to change. i even mentioned specifically that i have a lot of respect for Hardrock for not changing. not sure how you translate that into thinking that i'm trying to get hardrock to bend to my desires.<br /><br />you seem to disagree with me that there is a high demand for an event that focuses primarily on the front runners. you're welcome to feel that way, and maybe you're right, but I am quite certain that in a year or two from now (if not sooner) there will an event(s) which more than display that this demand does in fact exist. Does this change, or take anything away from current classics like Hardrock? Hell no. I'm not sure why some people feel so threatened by the idea of creating a race that specifically focus on the race at the front of the pack. that would then leave what, about 500 races that don't do this?<br />no matter what I say you're likely to feel that my desire to have this kind or race means that I don't care about existing races and middle/back of the pack runners. i just don't see why you would feel that the one has to be an indication of the other. perhaps you should wait until you see me at a race sometime and actually see how i interact with an event and with other runners rather than assuming that I don't care about these things simply because I want a championship race. In this regard I do get a nice laugh at you labeling me as narrow minded. i guess if i am being narrow minded then maybe it's a case of taking one to know one.Geoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03238385683129822240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-8619119470237036232011-02-11T09:16:06.861-09:002011-02-11T09:16:06.861-09:00Karl: With all due respect, regarding your comment...Karl: With all due respect, regarding your comment:<br /><br />"Ultrarunning is not an on-site spectator sport in the US. In Europe it is, 1000s of spectators come out for the Tour du Mont Blanc, why not in the US? Cuz' most are lazy and would rather sit ont he couch, order up some wings and watch the stupid bowl."<br /><br />I don't think Americans' apathy toward running is necessarily an issue of laziness. It's just a very different culture than Europe. I do wish people came out like they do for the Tour de France or Mont Blanc, but the fact of the matter is that the NFL rules here in the US. People here in the US just don't care much about running; they want to see guys hit each other. But I think it's high time that ultrarunning become a part of the X Games and maybe Olympic games. 100K road for the olympics; 50 or 100 mile trail for the X Games. Imagine the possibilities!<br /><br />Regarding your point about smart RDs using the Internet, absolutely! This is where a central ultrarunning organization could really help. We need the technology and platform to bring events to the masses worldwide. It's not that complicated--it can be done.Wyatt Hornsbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14224514798393011001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-81100879345095120032011-02-11T09:01:15.010-09:002011-02-11T09:01:15.010-09:00I have two belts with buckles all around them. Ma...I have two belts with buckles all around them. Makes a good trophy I suppose....Speedgoat Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06938342832238975059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-70977880443216842902011-02-11T08:47:27.283-09:002011-02-11T08:47:27.283-09:00Karl, Couldn't help but chuckle about your co...Karl, Couldn't help but chuckle about your comment on the buckles. If I hadn't been at Western States, to bring the cougar home Geoff was going to leave it in the rental car. Also, we have a bunch of buckles, ribbons and such that we have kept in case he ever wants them. When I went through customs security totally checked everything. The cougar weighs about 40 lbs. and it completely blocked the security camera.dvroeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10689637897023000809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-65144009023958948312011-02-11T07:43:35.893-09:002011-02-11T07:43:35.893-09:00I think it's only natural for the elite runner...I think it's only natural for the elite runners to want to compete against each other. I think it's in their DNA. "David" you called Geoff a "narrow minded elite", considering he keeps this forum open to good and bad comments, your description fails. You are calling a runner who ran Iditarod Trail Invitational race a elitist, wandering around in Alaska in a un-aided race is hardly something an elitist would do. But, these guys do deserve to make some money to support themselves and families and pursue their craft.Eric Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01909792721035477227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-64776709151157897402011-02-11T07:34:11.673-09:002011-02-11T07:34:11.673-09:00Dave and Ronald. You don't know Geoff, or even...Dave and Ronald. You don't know Geoff, or even me. We both give huge props for the back of the pack. When we bolt off after our run, we go to sleep, rest up, just like you would. WE don't care much about the buckle, at least I don't, and doubt Geoff does. We both show up after runs (such as Wasatch) to hang out with friends, have a few brews and watch the end of the field finish. It's awesome to watch everyone get it done. <br /><br />Geoff is one of the nicest guys out there, don't criticize someone for saying what they feel. I do the same and get some shit for it, but why should I care, it's a free world. We both have no intention of offendind anyone.<br /><br />Ultrarunning is not an on-site spectator sport in the US. In Europe it is, 1000s of spectators come out for the Tour du Mont Blanc, why not in the US? Cuz' most are lazy and would rather sit ont he couch, order up some wings and watch the stupid bowl. <br /><br />The real smart RD would use the internet, it's freakin' global and at the fingertips of anyone worldwide if they want it. That's how you watch a race...Garmin? Suunto?Speedgoat Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06938342832238975059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-28274479494013536852011-02-11T07:10:33.967-09:002011-02-11T07:10:33.967-09:00I was going to leave a detailed response to a few ...I was going to leave a detailed response to a few of these unbeliveably ignorant posts, but i'll save that for another time perhaps. What i will say is:<br /><br />Throughout history, In every human endeavor... be it religion, philosophy, science, sports, art... etc. There are those who push the boundaries and have the courage to go where others haven't, those who want to see things evolve... true pioneers! And of course the flip side of that is the people who remain ignorant, people who want to keep things the way they are, people who continue to stumble around in the dark because they're fearful... a very stifling existence indeed! <br /><br />To quote the lyrics of a dear friend:<br /> <br />I'm reaching up and reaching out,<br />I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.<br />And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.<br />We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.<br /><br />Spiral out. Keep going....<br /><br />Keep going Geoff! You and everyone like you. Your sport will be all the better for it.tim whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13452450668265728734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-25874577930941343482011-02-11T05:11:28.322-09:002011-02-11T05:11:28.322-09:00David & Ronald - Your comments really don'...David & Ronald - Your comments really don't deserve any recognition. All I will say is, you obviously don't know Geoff.dvroeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10689637897023000809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-88049767644086507692011-02-11T04:38:10.616-09:002011-02-11T04:38:10.616-09:00Awesome post(s) David.
I began following GR afte...Awesome post(s) David. <br /><br />I began following GR after an articl in RT, and I was monumentally impressed. My few months following this blog has shown me a person who isn't very attractive in mind. Doesn't seem to appreciate the beauty of the long run - I see only an angry person who is upset that he isn't getting rich from his significant ability. <br /><br />I understand with high talent, it is not uncommon to have high maintenance.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05065309298512374213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-17007710098268768052011-02-11T03:39:22.686-09:002011-02-11T03:39:22.686-09:00Have you spent any time on the other side of the a...Have you spent any time on the other side of the aid station table? First, you would see that ALL those spectators you think are there to watch you win a race are nothing more than volunteers at that station or crews waiting for their runners. Take away that "crowd" and you're down to a paltry few with interest enough to follow the lead pack and cheer just them on. Ultrarunning is NOT a spectator sport.<br /><br />Second, you would see that producing an event has very little to do with inviting the elite, but more trying to lure just enough people to break even. If you want a championship that mostly will draw just the elite, as you put it: "that's what most of us want: the chance to run against the best," then why haven't the sponsored already flocked to the scene to give you what you think you deserve? Gather up your elite friends and put on your own championship, with your sponsors behind you, rather than expect established events to bend to your desires. If I was an RD, I wouldn't want your narrow-minded eliteness tainting my event. Do you even talk to non-elite runners at your races? Those of us way behind you are what adds lasting personality to 100 milers, not the few who run fast, disappear until the awards, and then race out of town to prepare for the next win. Hooray!! that HR didn't bend to your desires.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11229115809555646904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-8575583972815568052011-02-11T03:24:13.709-09:002011-02-11T03:24:13.709-09:00It appears you haven't been on the other side ...It appears you haven't been on the other side of the aid station table. First, you'd then see that ALL those spectators you expect to rush to your event to watch the "best" duke it out are nothing more than either volunteers or crews for other runners. Host a run where, as you put it, "that's what most of us want: the chance to run against the best," then your limited field won't bring masses for the "yawn" of catching a glimpse of you fast guys. <br /><br />Second, other than sales to be made elsewhere, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why money hasn't flocked to the sport - what ultra event actually makes good profit just because a few fast guys show up? If you and the handful of other elite sponsored runners can't draw in a sponsor or two and make your own championship, why would you expect someone else to put in the mountains of work to put on a 100 mile race to benefit YOU?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11229115809555646904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-43542845712887003392011-02-10T19:05:01.206-09:002011-02-10T19:05:01.206-09:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bozobreath Gewurtzerbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05535157578113586748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-46379952267778786772011-02-10T18:34:13.038-09:002011-02-10T18:34:13.038-09:00I like the statement, "pumping all this money...I like the statement, "pumping all this money into the sport." <br /><br />Companies ( shoe/clothing ) are choosing to put a modest amount of money into ultra running, mostly advertising because the sheer nature of ultra running makes aspirational people turn their heads. <br /><br />Next time you want to talk about pumping money, check out (1) Kia commercial for the Superbowl and that will be the budget for all of ultra running inspired marketing for the rest of the decade.Rogue Valley Runnershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06656385810544117065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-68126235283136578292011-02-10T10:52:27.959-09:002011-02-10T10:52:27.959-09:00Every 100 years, all new people.
Dr. WoodstockEvery 100 years, all new people.<br /><br />Dr. WoodstockBillyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11973260566152427843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-36260065257750343292011-02-10T10:44:28.033-09:002011-02-10T10:44:28.033-09:00Geoff, in the early 80's many told Jim King &q...Geoff, in the early 80's many told Jim King "you can't run Devil's Thumb; you really think you can run all those hills?!" And in many ways he revolutionized the sport by doing it and pushing the boundaries of what was thought possible. Jim is a friend of mine and he absolutely believed in having the most competitive field assembled possible so that back-mid-front pack could all be encouraged and test their limits in their own personal way. Just like you want Tony and Killian there, he wanted Jim Howard, Bruce Labelle, Skip Hamilton, Doug Latimer, etc... all there so they could do what they love, build community with one another, encourage the masses, push each other to deeper levels (as surely indicated by the still untouched fastest split by Jim Howard from Hwy 49 in Cool to the finish as he was on a rampage to catch Jim King in 1983), and challenge themselves in ways they had yet to. I say all this to - as many others already have - encourage you to keep pushing those boundaries as I have faith the event you desire will happen and I believe everyone will enjoy the fruit of your labor.<br /><br />If you are looking for some encouragement/motivation, read Jim King's 1984 account at WS. He wanted to compete against the best, but everyone was an integral part of the bigger picture - everyone out there doing what they love and testing themselves, competing against themselves/others in their own personal way. <br /><br />http://www.ultrarunning.com/ultra/features/world/how-the-western-states-wa.shtmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com