tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post4251177623733064296..comments2024-02-29T02:06:59.726-09:00Comments on Fumbling Towards Endurance: Way Too LongUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-31681620528047017882011-03-15T00:36:32.535-08:002011-03-15T00:36:32.535-08:00trlrunrgrl: ultrarunning magazine, at the end of e...trlrunrgrl: ultrarunning magazine, at the end of each year, does a huge spread with all kinds of stats about our sport. i think it was either the latest issue or the one before. check it out.Rainshadow Runninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18391156461617756893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-39693864817700878012011-02-25T07:10:50.924-09:002011-02-25T07:10:50.924-09:00Congrats on the UROC100k Geoff ... seems to me lik...Congrats on the UROC100k Geoff ... seems to me like you put your time/effort where your mouth is! :)<br /><br />You weren't expected to do this... there's nothing wrong with bringing forth innovative thinking/ideas to your career and passion.<br /><br />Just to do that in such a manor is commendable... but to do so and then help bring about a true championship race like you have been talking about is awesome and shows you care a great deal.<br /><br />Mom Roes... the bigger the sport becomes and the longer Geoff dominates the more random 'haters' will come out of the wood work. More often than not they will have hateful things to say based on 0 fact. I know its hard as a Mom but you have to take those comments with a grain of salt.<br /><br />Looking forward to Sept 24th to see what shakes out in the mountains of VA! Would have been nice to see it run as a 100m but I think 100k will still give time to sort the men from the boys (and women from the girls).Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162538464436020664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-91584856480699109732011-02-21T23:40:34.671-09:002011-02-21T23:40:34.671-09:00Hi Geoff
A few thoughts from England. Fell runnin...Hi Geoff<br /><br />A few thoughts from England. Fell running started around (say) the 1860s in England but only really got numbers in the late 1960s and early 1970s. We quickly created a national governing body, The Fell Runners Association, which sits under (now) UK Athletics with delagated authority but lots of autonomy.<br /><br />Our Championship doesn't go longer than our definition of a Long race, but these can be in the low 20s miles.<br /><br />Off road ultra running is both becoming more popular and getting more organised. Like you we don;t have a true national Championship race set up, and I'm not hearing a huge demand for anything of that type.<br /><br />We do though have a first go at an Ultra Championship series under the Run Further banner, brief details here:<br /><br />http://www.runfurther.com/2011-c-870.html<br /><br />And as I have mntioned in other posts, there is now a Commonwealth Mountain Running and Ultra Championships, this year to be held in North Wales, with both a 24 hour and 50km+ trail race, brief details here:<br /><br />http://www.cumbriacommonwealthchampionships.org/PRESSRELEASEMEDIACONFERENCE.htm<br /><br />I am observing the debate with interest from afar, because, as ever, I suspect that we will be a few years behind you in terms of some of these conclusions, but may well be able to deliver solutions quicker because of some of the underlying infrastucture laready in place.<br /><br />Cheers.<br /><br />MorganMorganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09564702344121559585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-14298629683515405022011-02-21T19:12:32.013-09:002011-02-21T19:12:32.013-09:00I was the one that originally brought up the Olymp...I was the one that originally brought up the Olympic thing. Sorry.<br /><br />Kris, <br />Just to clear up what I meant... I don't think ultra-running needs to be an Olympic event. I was just thinking out loud and jokingly wondering "what if." <br />Geoff didn't mention it in his post either so you really are arguing against the wind. Because no one on here has actually stated that ultra-running NEEDS/SHOULD be in the Olympics.<br /><br />So, lets close the book on talking about the Olympics thing. I should have not opened it.Michael Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06363666115412114720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-17149916023303782072011-02-21T17:53:16.026-09:002011-02-21T17:53:16.026-09:00While everyone doesn't use ultrasignup for reg...While everyone doesn't use ultrasignup for registration, I am pretty sure they've done a pretty good job of collecting all of the results (in the US at least) in one place, which is why I suggested that would be a good database to mine. (I've run some pretty small obscure races, and all of my results are there... the good, the bad, and the ugly.) Obviously ultrarunner magazine has all or nearly all results for the US as well, but I don't think they have a user-friendly interface like Ultrasignup. The data exists, we just need a runner stat junky to mine it for us :) The person who runs that web site might be our guy :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-78272334657749522872011-02-21T13:09:08.791-09:002011-02-21T13:09:08.791-09:00During a totally non-Zen non-here-in-the-now momen...During a totally non-Zen non-here-in-the-now moment during the Moab RedHot this weekend the whole discussion about an elite race popped into my head again (like I said very non-Zen) . . . in some ways us middle of the pack runners are lucky because we have people to compete against all the time and I realized that competition is definitely part of the attraction and that I full-on enjoyed the little competitions I was in during the course of the race despite the fact that the winner (Dakota) was nearly an hour ahead of me by the time I crossed the finish line. I tend to believe the best thing that could happen would be a new national race to be developed that would be focused on competition (either elite style or Boston style) and that this should probably happen at both the 50 and 100 mile distances . . . I for one would be totally willing to waste a day on the couch drinking beer watching you top runners duke it out (hell, if it was Boston style and I was lucky enough to qualify I would even be willing to sweep and simply see you all at the starting line) . . . good luck and I hope it happens soon enough that the current generation of top dogs get a chance to race a "real" national championship in the mountains.japhrunshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16291390981850688335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-47565681470307629962011-02-21T12:56:44.485-09:002011-02-21T12:56:44.485-09:00Trlrnrgrl: Good question. This is one of the reaso...Trlrnrgrl: Good question. This is one of the reasons why we need a national ultrunning body that is effective. It could look at trends, stats, etc. and help keep the sport in line with demand. We need one place for all ultra registrations. Many registrations are at Ultra Sign Up, but many are elsewhere. If one location housed all registrations and results, it would be easy to track stats. The key is getting buy-in from all RDs.Wyatt Hornsbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14224514798393011001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-13767742404804919062011-02-21T12:55:25.380-09:002011-02-21T12:55:25.380-09:00This comment has been removed by the author.Wyatt Hornsbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14224514798393011001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-54964104444576799812011-02-21T11:45:49.956-09:002011-02-21T11:45:49.956-09:00This was posted earlier by Double Bock -
"Ul...This was posted earlier by Double Bock -<br /><br />"Ultra-Runner magazine had all ultras finished in USA 2009 = 36,000 (Male and female)of which 9%were 100s.<br /><br />After adding the number of people doing multiple events - I would guess averages @ 5 per person in a year.<br /><br />We are still participating in an obscure sport."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03662322900559660512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-35486702374081215962011-02-20T20:32:55.770-09:002011-02-20T20:32:55.770-09:00trlrnrgrl, I sent a note over to the folks at Ultr...trlrnrgrl, I sent a note over to the folks at Ultra Signup asking them if they'd be willing to share that sort of data with the community. I'll post back here if they get back to me.<br /><br />Cheers!Mike Placehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06189072708719526294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-50694722121243594432011-02-20T20:20:19.823-09:002011-02-20T20:20:19.823-09:00Anytime someone says get a real job I feel bad for...Anytime someone says get a real job I feel bad for how miserable theirs must be. That's all..hahaL and Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02973241106124385682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-86224703364094384592011-02-20T19:41:19.136-09:002011-02-20T19:41:19.136-09:00Re: growing popularity of the sport. Has anyone ev...Re: growing popularity of the sport. Has anyone ever seen good estimates of the number of people who attempt and/or complete ultras or even just 100's in a given year? When I see the data about number of finishes, it obviously begs the question... but how many runners? Since a significant proportion of ultrarunners do multiple races per year (and probably a significant minority of people do ridiculous numbers of races in a single year), knowing the number of "finishes" doesn't give us a very good estimate of the numbers of participants in the sport. Since ultrasignup.com tallies data for individual runners, perhaps that would be the best source for this sort of data mining? (number of unique individuals listed in results for ).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-48069392622569294882011-02-20T10:43:35.353-09:002011-02-20T10:43:35.353-09:00" the other thing to remember is that ultra r..." the other thing to remember is that ultra races have a very high DNF rate. 36,000 ultras finished in 2009 was likely closer to 50,000 started."<br /><br />Hi Geoff,<br /><br />I was thinking about this very thing the other day. I was wondering if, with the increased popularity of ultras if the DNF rate might be on the rise as well. This comes into play when thinking about the need for a lottery system in some races. If the DNF rate were rising, it would suggest that more people ar running who aren't properly trained and that qualifiers might be a better option than pure lotteries.<br /><br />So, I took the entire history of the Wasatch 100 since that's my local race and I graphed DNFs over time. Other than a few early years, the rate hasn't really changed that much. It varies a bit from year to year, but there's no clear increase. (Aside: did you guys know that in 1981 *nobody* finished the race? I didn't.)<br /><br />At any rate, that's a little off-topic but I thought I'd toss it out there in case anybody finds it interesting. If anybody wants the numbers, the raw ones are here: http://www.wasatch100.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=2&Itemid=5<br /><br />I'll post the graphs if anybody really wants to see them.Mike Placehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06189072708719526294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-6468747142712344272011-02-20T02:19:05.426-09:002011-02-20T02:19:05.426-09:00...woke up in the middle of the night and read thi......woke up in the middle of the night and read this post and these comments, and started laughing...<br /><br />Yeah Olympics would be nice but, i agree with Kris and Geoff, it takes a championship just like Kona and by the way, its not the ironman distance at the olympics, so nobody really knows these guys (at the O.) unless you follow the world cup events of triathlon. When you think of triathlon, you think of Mark Allen, Dave Scott... great ironman champions, super match-up.<br /><br />Speaking of getting this sport to the next level, again, Kona might not be so much on the radar if NBC had not started to air it. They do a wonderful job of getting compelling stories of winners in 8-9 hours all the way to the last guy-gal in 17 hours... in a 2 hours format.<br />Why couldn't they do it for a 20-30 hours ultra race ? They certainly could. Just need a few helos, a finish time during the daytime (for better image), 1500-2000 people line up, and you're all set.<br /><br />Kris, as Dave Mackey once said, running ultra sucks, its ultras. They don't do it cause its cool because they want to push themselves like everybody else here. What's cool is these guys coming here, debating, some receiving mud in their eyes, have a beer, laugh, and go out again on the trail.<br />I don't imagine for one bit, that Hall or Meb would do this... so hourra to these ultra guys and being so cool...<br /><br />Karl, Geoff, Dave, you guys rock !Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01918700586464054615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-11075587995279768292011-02-19T18:00:38.684-09:002011-02-19T18:00:38.684-09:00Hi all, I do think ultrarunning has some potential...Hi all, I do think ultrarunning has some potential as a spectator sport, contrary to what some have said on here. Do you guys remember the YouTube video of Geoff in the last mile+ of Western, running down the road with Dave Mackey? That was intense stuff and I think it would play well on TV. As much as it pains me to mention Ironman Kona, look at how successful it is on TV--the intensity, the drama, the stories--and I think ultrarunning does have great potential on TV. I'd love to see it in the X Games and I do think a 100K road race would fit well with the spirit of the Olympic Games.<br /><br />Just my two cents.<br /><br />WyattWyatt Hornsbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14224514798393011001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-47093248368108461372011-02-19T17:59:57.682-09:002011-02-19T17:59:57.682-09:00Kris, you make a much better point if you were not...Kris, you make a much better point if you were not explicitly trying to be an asshole.<br /><br />Ultras are still a fringe sport. They have grown a great deal. It is fair for athletes (particularly top ones) in the sport to request that the leading bodies - USATF or key races - use their power to move the sport forward.<br /><br />Kona was not what it is today. It was with the introduction of significant prize money that made it what it is.<br /><br />No way is ultra running going make its way into the Olympics - they got rid of XC years ago because it was too scary.GZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12623054918799881730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-40148416642933932982011-02-19T15:51:31.741-09:002011-02-19T15:51:31.741-09:00I bet 100 bucks Kris is really a dude.
Maybe it...I bet 100 bucks Kris is really a dude. <br /><br />Maybe it is time to turn on the moderation and get rid of these wankers. I am all for freedom of speech but not when it is hid behind spineless anonymity.Honehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10305522904478032648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-66434381653579057882011-02-19T14:04:19.777-09:002011-02-19T14:04:19.777-09:00It costs nothing to run through the woods. So why ...It costs nothing to run through the woods. So why do we pay to race? Certainly not for the gaudy buckles or yet another technical tee. <br /><br />We pay for the competition. We happily pay. We pay for it in dollars and long training miles and occasionally blood and broken parts. No matter where we fall in the "pack" we do it because we are trying to achieve something personal and meaningful and ultimately quite selfish. Selfish in the best sort of way. Its what seperates a race from a run. <br /><br />A championship race is just the next logical step in the evolution of our sport. If you can't accept that the best in the sport want to be challenged by high caliber competition then whats the point of races at all? <br /><br />And, yes, we are validated in knowing that what we gain from running our best race is something that Joe Couchsurfer can not buy at walmart for any amount of money. <br /><br />Geoff, good luck with all your races this year.Aaron Spurlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213808027179327866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-5328962913574214922011-02-19T10:31:20.432-09:002011-02-19T10:31:20.432-09:00Back on subject then. Why do we need the Olympics ...Back on subject then. Why do we need the Olympics to validate our sport? We don't need the X-games. Does soccer need the Olympics? No! Soccer has the FIFA World Cup which in "The Greatest Show On Earth." The World Cup dawrfs the Olympics and we are talking about one sport. Do triathletes need the Olympics? Last time I checked it was still the best that go to Kona.Krishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08649849068889638443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-69246945800858693502011-02-19T08:17:20.281-09:002011-02-19T08:17:20.281-09:00Dopple Bock,
you are correct. the overall numbers ...Dopple Bock,<br />you are correct. the overall numbers are quite small, but I believe are growing faster than what the existing style and format of the sport are capable of keeping up with in all areas. <br />the other thing to remember is that ultra races have a very high DNF rate. 36,000 ultras finished in 2009 was likely closer to 50,000 started. it'd be interesting to tally the numbers for 2010 (maybe UR magazine has/will do this?) and see what kind of increase there is, if any. it'd also be interesting to see what the numbers were 5, 10, 15, 20, etc years ago. my guess would be that it's doubling about every 5 years (or less) right now.<br /><br />Texas,<br />I think you're reading a bit far into my posts and making a lot of assumptions based on ideas of what you think are right and wrong. i don't expect you to live to my standards of what's right or wrong and i certainly have no obligation or desire to live to your standards in this regard. if you disagree with specific things i'm talking about in my posts i would love to have those conversations, but if you simply feel that i shouldn't be writing about these things because no one cares about them except for me then maybe you should consider the irony of the fact that you're reading my blog and commenting on my blog as a means to inform me that you don't care about what i think. When I don't care about what someone thinks I generally don't "read many of their posts" and then comment that I don't care what they think. there is a difference between disagreeing with what someone thinks and not caring about what someone thinks. so again, if you actually want to have any conversations about your disagreements with specific things I wrote about in this post, fire away, i'd be open to those conversations. <br /><br />Kris,<br />I would say the same to you. if you actually want to talk about any of the things i'm writing about in my posts i'd be happy to have those conversations. if not, you can feel free to continue to entertain us all with your juvenile cries for attention, but please know that if you continue to use my blog as a forum to make vulgar, completely off topic, and personal attacks at other's who are making comments I will be switching to moderated comment format and deleting these types of comments.Geoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03238385683129822240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-10394052991397118482011-02-19T06:59:37.266-09:002011-02-19T06:59:37.266-09:00"It's simple, we work to live, we don'..."It's simple, we work to live, we don't live to work."<br /><br />If I've learned anything from Karl Meltzer, it is this.<br /><br />Awesome!!!!!!!!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03662322900559660512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-21151039098476316112011-02-19T05:39:10.890-09:002011-02-19T05:39:10.890-09:00Dave, yah, I was running yesterday and thought to...Dave, yah, I was running yesterday and thought to myself. "Why did I even bite at Kris' bait? :-)<br /><br />Texas, all of us at the top of the "sport of ultrarunnning", have jobs. We just don't have the 9-5 routine. It's simple, we work to live, we don't live to work. There is a big difference. <br /><br />One of the reasons some of us are fast is because we scrape to get by so we have more time to run. Pretty good evidence that we do it because we like it, not to satisfy anyone else. <br /><br />To me, as long as I have enough dinero to pick up some food at the grocery store and have a roof over my head, I'm fine. We can't bring the money with us, so why have a pile of it. It'll get heavy! :-)<br /><br />All in good fun. <br /><br />Kris, keep up the good work, freedom of speech is cool.Speedgoat Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06938342832238975059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-40918696700351111922011-02-19T04:23:36.236-09:002011-02-19T04:23:36.236-09:00why everybody keep telling Geoff to get a job, or ...why everybody keep telling Geoff to get a job, or Tony to get a job.<br />Do you realize that running it's a job for them?<br />They live with that!<br />And if you're jealous because they make money by doing what they love, well, that's your problem!matteohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03223385355473807706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-16848370986579421842011-02-19T01:37:08.085-09:002011-02-19T01:37:08.085-09:00One more thing, you cry about not having your cham...One more thing, you cry about not having your championship? Make your own!? That is what an adult would do, not just sit and complain like a child, thinking about ways you could further build your ego on your blog. You obviously have the time, you know with all that wind pinning you down in the house? Be some what productive start your race invite "your" list of elite buddies and you guys could all hang out and talk about how you are changing the "sport." SO COOL??? The best part is by only inviting your fast friends you will continue to do nothing to help the rest of society or the other people involved in the "sport." Best of luck out there Geoff.I am from Texashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16876595183402926652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3807027359418593456.post-68237015903819497582011-02-18T22:16:44.827-09:002011-02-18T22:16:44.827-09:00Geoff I was told to come to your blog by a friend....Geoff I was told to come to your blog by a friend. I have read many of your posts. I think that you might be giving yourself and the "sport" a bit to much credit. I am just guessing you don't have a lot going on in life right now outside of running, judging by the "sat around all day waiting for the wind to die" comments. So I can understand why you would look for something too make yourself feel good, which you are obviously doing. Stop trying to defend your somewhat meaningless life. I respect what you do on the trail, you really are a amazing runner, however you are going a little over board. Great runners like Karl, dominated the "sport" for years and never asked for anything and didn't complained relentlessly about there situation. The world does not care about your running believe me! Cause I respect you and ultras, and really don't care that much. So keep up the good work on the trail but grow up, get a job and try to be an adult, your mom can only defend you for so long!I am from Texashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16876595183402926652noreply@blogger.com